Brenda 00:00:01 Welcome to your yes filled life. I'm Brenda Winkle, an intuitive leadership coach and somatic guide for high achievers, high performers and spiritual seekers who want more freedom, ease, joy and energy. You are a visionary, leader driven, intuitive, and ready for more more flow in your work, more presence and joy in your life. More trust in yourself, your intuition and the decisions that you make every day. Here we explore the intersection of intuition, spiritual growth, leadership, and energetics to create energetic sovereignty, blending practical strategy with energetic alignment so you can create success that feels deeply fulfilling at work, at home, in your relationships, and in your personal well-being, you'll hear inspiring stories, practical strategies, and high level conversations designed to help you expand your leadership, deepen your spiritual growth, and integrate the woo and spirituality into your daily life. Because when your energy is aligned, everything flows ready to elevate how you lead and live. Start by downloading my free energy audit at Brenda Winkel. Com forward slash audit and discover what's fueling you or depleting you.
Brenda 00:01:25 Let's do this. Your yes. Filled life starts now. Hi, Miranda. Hello. Thank you so much for being here on your. Yes filled life.
Miranda 00:01:40 Yes. Speaking of. Yes, yes. I am so, so glad to be here.
Brenda 00:01:46 Yeah. So I have a question. Just to kind of kick things off. What is one thing you either did or did not do that has led you to your yes filled life?
Miranda 00:01:57 Oh, God. You know, one important thing that I learned from one of my last employers. I've been working for myself for quite some time now, but she kind of taught me always to say yes and then figure it out on the back end, which I know it sounds really bad, but in this period of my life, it's it's been really important to be audacious. And I, I naturally would be inclined to say no out of fear or out of does not knowing if I'm good enough if I measure up. And so we talk a little bit about attachment styles.
Miranda 00:02:39 I think this will totally makes sense. And so I guess just a note for your listeners that while, yes, a piece of advice is like not saying yes to everything that's solid, but the application is just as important because it's not a one size fits all, application to everyone in every situation.
Brenda 00:03:04 Okay I, I'm curious about this. So when you say say yes to everything it's I'm what I'm hearing you say is even if you don't know how, say yes. Even if you feel scared. So it's not a yes to everything. It's a yes to the things that feel like they're aligned but that just feel maybe intimidating or scary or new.
Miranda 00:03:30 Yes. Yeah I like yeah that reframe really buttons that quite a bit. But yes, the things that feel scary, especially the things that feel new, you know, when people say, well, I've never done that before. Yeah, here's, here's the chance, here's an opportunity. And I think that this specifically applies to healing.
Brenda 00:03:54 Absolutely. And so you are an expert on attachment styles.
Brenda 00:03:58 And I know that this is impacting our ability to say yes or no, or to feel confident and really step into the things that we want for our lives. But I'm curious, before we dive into attachment styles, one of the things that you said created a question for me, and I'm wondering, what is the relationship between being able to tolerate change have to do with our ability to say, yes are the things we really want? Because so many times if we say yes to the thing, something is going to change.
Miranda 00:04:37 Yeah, that is so profound. Yes, something definitely is going to change. I guess what comes up for me when I think about, you know, what I do is hard not to see it through this lens is that means certain roles we've played in our life or in our relationships. Sometimes they have to shrink or to expand in order for us to say that. Yes, and that can be scary. That can be scary internally within us because it's something new. But we also had the unknown, like how people are going to respond to my pivot or to my shift.
Brenda 00:05:14 Yeah. Okay. How people are going to respond to my pivot or my shift. Oh yeah. So let's get into attachment styles for the listener who is like okay I've heard of this, I have I know that we have these different styles, but they don't really know what that means. Could we just unpack what is an attachment style and how does it impact us?
Miranda 00:05:37 Yes. So an attachment style is what develops based on our previous experiences. And so when we think about the origins of attachment theory, it was developed from studying children's responses to different situations. not to bore your audience because everyone doesn't isn't fascinated as much as I am about it, but to to pull it up to speed in our application today, you know, we develop secure or or insecure attachment based on our previous experiences where we how we learn to experience safety in how we learn to interpret threats. That shows up in our adult relationships today. So primarily I to make it simple, I really focus on secure or insecure. And speaking on podcasts today, we'll we'll probably go a little bit deeper and talk about secure, anxious and avoidant attachment in just our different responses and such.
Miranda 00:06:40 But in a nutshell.
Brenda 00:06:42 Yeah, okay. That's so good. So when you're talking about safety, one of the things that I do for my clients, especially if they're a new client, is we come in and do a safety check. And that doesn't necessarily mean scanning the room for a big threat. It means checking in with the nervous system. Does the body feel safe or is it too hot to cold? Is the is the room too bright? And so when we're talking about safety, there's a lot of different meanings of that word. Of course we're talking about physical safety, as in free from obvious threats. But we're also talking about the more subtle kinds of safety, as in, I don't feel triggered in my nervous system right now. My nervous system is regulated, and that's another form of safety. And I'm curious when you're talking about the attachments that form in early childhood, whether we're feeling threatened or threatened, what kinds of things impact that ability to feel safe? Is it nervous system? Is it bigger?
Miranda 00:07:45 Yeah, I think nervous system is definitely a foundational, concept with it, but it also can look like, you know, if I have an anxious attachment style, I feel my most safe and things are predictable and understood or explained to me in advance, or something's consistent versus like hit or miss.
Miranda 00:08:07 If I have an avoidant attachment style, I feel safest. If I feel like I have some autonomy, some free will, some choice, or, some space and time to do things independently and on my own.
Brenda 00:08:21 Okay, so that's kind of a mic drop moment. Just understanding the difference between the anxious and the avoidant attachment styles. Is it possible for someone to go in between to have.
Miranda 00:08:33 Definitely.
Brenda 00:08:34 Okay, okay. So how how does that impact our ability to show up as adults.
Miranda 00:08:43 Oh that's such a loaded question. Well I guess I'm stuck on the can you do both or can you go in between and I'm like, okay, let's.
Brenda 00:08:50 Let's stay there. Let's stay there. Because I know that in myself, I would identify now as having secure attachment. But I went decades and I, I know that I went between the, the avoidant and the anxious and it would depend a lot on what my particular role in the situation was, and it would depend on the patterning that had happened around that role.
Brenda 00:09:15 And so, like in some friendships, I might come in with an anxious attachment. And then in romantic relationships I might show the avoidant or vice versa.
Miranda 00:09:25 Yes. Or in that same relationship that you showed up as avoidant. Over time, it can shift either to anxious security. It just really depends. Yeah. You know, I was listening to this podcast years and years ago. I forget who I want to say. It's Marnie and she wrote this, this book called Ghosted in Breadcrumbs or something like that. And she talked about attachment, and she talked about how she's developed a secure attachment with her husband, which I can I can relate to, but there's certain times or certain, trigger points that if they're introduced into their relationship dynamic, there's a reversion back. And so while we do talk about, you know, attachment styles and there's these cute little categories, that's just for the sake of like being able to understand the concepts and like just getting a general picture of what we're talking about. But really it's very fluid.
Miranda 00:10:22 It's not really a like you're this or you're that, like it's not so clean. It can be kind of messy. but it's what's really important is that you recognize, when your sense of safety is compromised in, like, finding secure ways to behave in those times. And so before I ever developed any semblance of a secure attachment, I had to first act secure. Because in that acting secure, I was able to get a different response from my external, you know, from other people, my environment, which made me practice and learn like what that felt like and so that I could be like, I feel safe in the call.
00:11:05 Yeah.
Miranda 00:11:06 Because that's the thing.
Brenda 00:11:07 Totally. So for somebody that's like, okay, I don't even know what that means. Can you give us an example of what it would be like to act as though you have a secure attachment?
00:11:17 Yes.
Miranda 00:11:18 And so let's say someone with an anxious attachment style, they may feel activated by simply not receiving a response via text or phone call.
Miranda 00:11:31 Like, let's say you reach out to someone that you're dating or a friend and they don't respond back. Some of those anxious, attachment narratives, maybe like, oh, they don't like you anymore, or they're upset with you. So you jump to those conclusions. So talking yourself through that and just saying like, well, just because I feel anxious about this doesn't mean that there's anything wrong. Let me give it some time and space. Maybe there's some other, you know, reasonable explanations to this. So I'm going to give them time. And then when they do finally circle back and it's like oh they were actually really busy or they whatever the reason was, then I can feel glad and comforted that I didn't respond that way. And having that positive moment sets me up to perhaps be more secure. The next time that happens doesn't mean that I won't have any anxiety activation, it just means that I will. I will say like, oh, I've done this before, let me just wait. Because maybe it's like last time.
Miranda 00:12:36 Maybe they'll they'll. Have a reasonable explanation that I don't need to.
Brenda 00:12:42 Okay, this is so good. So I remember the moment like it was an actual moment for me when I wouldn't have used the word anxious attachment because I didn't have that language. But I remember when I learned it's not all about me. And at the time, I was a Mary Kay sales director, and I was trying to host this party, and I had done a really good job preparing the the girl. We called them hostesses, preparing her for the party. I had talked to all of her guests. I had like on the phone, had talked to her and her guests, made sure I knew exactly what they expected, made sure that they understood what I was bringing, and I was so proud of myself. I'd done such a good job. And I got to the party and the house was dark and I was like, I felt my heart racing. I felt my hands go clammy, and I'm telling myself stories about them hiding behind the kitchen counter so I don't see them.
Brenda 00:13:41 And I'm like watching for movement and just totally sure that they're in the house somewhere, just not wanting to answer the door. And it was all about avoiding me. I was convinced and I was devastated, embarrassed, humiliated, sad. And I just went home after. I mean, by the way, I had called her multiple times in this process and just saying, hey, I'm just here checking in. And, it was about three weeks later that I got a text from the hostess and she said, I'm so sorry about the party. My grandmother died and I left town and I forgot your number. I couldn't remember your name to even look it up on my phone because of the trauma of grandma dying. Right. And she said it took me this long to find your number and let you know I couldn't hold the party. I'm so sorry. I was able to text all the guests, which is why they weren't there. And that's not her words, but that's what. That's what happened.
Miranda 00:14:39 That's what happened.
Brenda 00:14:39 And I was just like, oh my gosh, it was never about me. It had literally nothing to do with me. And here I was punishing myself with this story about them hiding behind the counter so I couldn't see them.
Miranda 00:14:53 Yeah, it was like maybe a fear of rejection. Totally. So like, I if you were my client. So what I do in my work, I help you trace back when were the earlier memories of feeling the same way? And oftentimes our response to things today are like they mirror. It's like a flood of like old stuff coming back up. So you weren't just responding to the house being dark that day. You were responding to all the other times you felt rejected. Yes. And so that's that went into those scripts, those the stories that you were telling yourself. We all do it. It happens to us. All right.
Brenda 00:15:31 Yeah, yeah we do. We all do it. And I will say that I'm on the opposite end of the pendulum now, where I probably don't take enough things personally.
Brenda 00:15:41 I probably should take more things personally, but I do remember that as being a pivotal moment in changing the way that I interacted with people. Remembering it wasn't about me, and I'd heard people say that before, it's not all about you. And I literally didn't know what they meant. I was like, what do you mean? Of course it's about me.
Miranda 00:16:02 Yeah. Well, yeah, it's hard to break down unless you actually have the experience and that. Yeah. That moment.
Brenda 00:16:10 So that that's you said that was kind of like the anxious attachment. What would an avoidant attachment look like. What what might be a trigger for an avoidant behavior to come up. What might someone do or think or feel.
Miranda 00:16:27 Yeah. For simplicity's sake, let's say you were an avoidant attachment in this situation. You come to the house, It's all dark. No one's there. Some of the stories that you may have told yourself is. See, this is why I don't like to depend on anyone or. Or see, this is why I just.
Miranda 00:16:43 I'd rather just do things on my own. Why did I? I should host my own parties? Why did I depend on this person? And so that would further, you know, isolate them and not not have others incorporated.
Brenda 00:16:57 Yeah. So that's the story. I'll just do it by myself. I can't count on anybody. It's fine. If you don't want to go with me I'm going to go by myself and it's all good. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. So I know our listeners are probably thinking oh I feel myself in a little bit of these stories. What does it feel like to be in a secure attachment?
Miranda 00:17:20 Yeah, it's almost like I liken it to a child no longer being afraid of the dark. And so think about, you know, I'm just thinking about cheesy movies or I just know fancy Nancy's like a cartoon my daughter used to watch. And I think there's, like, this episode where there's creepy shadows and you flick on a light, and then the creepy shadow is like these benign items in the house.
Miranda 00:17:50 And so it's really just shedding a light on things that you used to fear, and they just no longer being a threat anymore. I'm just not afraid of the dark anymore. I'm not afraid that someone not responding to my text message or not being at home, it doesn't automatically mean that they're rejecting me or something's wrong with me or something's wrong with them, per se.
Brenda 00:18:14 Yeah, yeah. So for somebody who's like, okay, I'm ready to acknowledge that I have some anxious and avoidant attachment styles or, behaviors. What are some things that they might be able to do to begin to untangle that.
Miranda 00:18:32 Yeah. So some of the things that we highlighted in our book, I co-authored a book called Attachment Style Makeover with Jessica Harris. And we really go through one. We we have an attachment quiz and some exercises to kind of like our conversation today, help you highlight how easy it is to have an insecure attachment style. It really isn't that hard. I just live on Earth. Yeah, yeah, but but navigate, you know, discovering your own tendencies, even if you don't pinpoint your exact style.
Miranda 00:19:06 Because a lot of our clients are just like, I still don't know. What do you think? And, you know, but understanding your patterns and then understanding where your patterns may have developed from and then, from that you're able to, like, highlight your triggers and your needs. And so for an anxious person to feel safe, I think we talked about needing consistency, maybe some reassurance. Assurance. Right? and so if that's what you need, how do you seek those things out in a secure way, in a way that isn't off putting? Not in a way that says, oh, why don't you ever do this for me? Or how come blah, blah, blah. And usually the other person is like, oh, on defense. And and that usually creates a little bit of distance versus inviting the other person to meet those needs in a way that's more secure. Like, hey, I really like this. Let's do this together, or initiating the things that you actually want. Yeah.
Brenda 00:20:00 So for somebody who has an avoidant attachment style, what are some of the things that they can do to challenge their reaction to the triggers?
Miranda 00:20:09 Yeah, I think it's really important is to have open communication about needs. And you know, if an avoidant person is in a relationship, let's say, with someone who's more anxious and who needs more reassurance to feel safe. being honest about, like this is what I need, and making sure that they communicate to their anxious partner that this is not a reflection on them, it's just different and finding ways to meet in the middle.
Brenda 00:20:37 Yeah. So I was thinking about, I, I have these close friends and we talk, you know, almost daily. And one of them suggested an activity. And my response to the activity was, my priority is spending time with you. This isn't necessarily something that I would choose to do on my own, but because we're going to do it together, it sounds great. And then her response was, you know what? If it's not your thing, you don't have to.
Brenda 00:21:09 I'll just go by myself. And I was thinking, as you were talking about that, I was like, oh, I triggered a little bit of an attachment thing for her. And then that response triggered a little thing in me where I was like, no, no, no, wait. Holy. And so, you know, it's so interesting just listening and being reflective and thinking. I would identify as somebody who has fairly secure attachments. And also I have these these experiences in my life where every once in a while I'll be like, no, wait, wait, you know.
Miranda 00:21:45 Yeah, no, I love that. I love that you bring that up. And, you know, inherently there was nothing wrong with that interaction. It doesn't mean that either one of you needs to change, per se. It just is very interesting to take to make note of it. Isn't that if you said, no, I am going to go. I'll meet you there at whatever time, you know.
Miranda 00:22:06 but it is also okay to let it go and let her deal with the. If she said she's okay with doing it alone, then taking her word for it.
Brenda 00:22:15 That's right, that's right.
Miranda 00:22:16 Yeah.
Brenda 00:22:18 Yeah, I there was a group of friends I had once upon a time and they loved watching the UFC fights and no shade to anybody who likes the UFC fights. I know they're very, very popular. For me, it was too much for my nervous system and so I would feel, almost ill watching it just because it was too much for my system. And so I declined some invitations to go watch the fights, because that was what I, I needed to do for me. And it was really interesting to watch that friendship evolve from me pulling away from that particular spoke on the Wheel of Friendship and, you know, things, things ended up fine. But there was that little part where it was like trying to look for rebalancing. And I'm curious, what is that rebalancing like for most people? How do they.
Brenda 00:23:16 And I know this is a big question, but what are some of the ways people might feel that rebalancing, that shifting happening.
Miranda 00:23:25 That can be a huge, threatening moment. And there's many people, because of the threat that perhaps they wouldn't have followed through, they would have rejoined or maybe overcompensated by like having these long, drawn out explanations of why they're not attending and whatnot, or for your friends. You know, there could be some that feel threatened and and not in assume that maybe you don't want to be invited to anything because you didn't want to go to that. And so that's that's such a real thing. I love your stories. They definitely highlight this, very much. But I can imagine, like, if you had kept going, I bet you were feeling like burnt out.
Brenda 00:24:05 Totally. I was exhausted, literally. I would go home from these events that were supposed to be social and fun on the weekends, and I would be depleted where it would take me a day to recover.
Brenda 00:24:17 It felt like a hangover without the alcohol.
Miranda 00:24:21 Well, yeah. And so I think that, yeah, the burnout is definitely a part of both cycles, whether anxious or avoidant. But I think it stems from, from different things. So as an anxiously attached person you become burned out because you're overextending over performing, because somewhere along the way you've developed the story in your head that in order to be loved or to be accepted, you have to show up or you have to perform. Okay. So people, please.
Brenda 00:24:52 Let's say that again for the people in the back, anxiously attached people over give over perform and people please.
Miranda 00:25:00 They take on too much responsibility for the emotions of the situation or they pull too much weight. They're the people in the group project that are like so burnt out, so stressed out, are having meltdowns in their sacrificing, but it's really hard for them to let go because of fear that if I let this go, will people show up for me?
Brenda 00:25:24 Right. I have to do it all.
Brenda 00:25:26 But I'm mad. I'm doing.
Miranda 00:25:27 It. Show up and deliver. Yes. Well, because it's tiresome, like no one person can. It's not sustainable. That's right. Right. And so for someone who's more avoidant, their burnout comes from not accepting help doing it all on their own. They can't trust, they don't want to be let down. And so in order to protect themselves from that, they also protect themselves from the peace of having collaboration and help and and not carrying it all on them.
Brenda 00:25:59 So yeah. Okay. So in summary, the avoidant attacker is going to just do it all and assume that they are the only ones capable of doing it all. Sort of like I got this. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Miranda 00:26:12 I mean there could be some overlap with like People call them perfectionists. The DSM, we call them is not OCD. The OCD personality disorder Ocpd.
Brenda 00:26:27 Okay, so for the person who's like, I don't know what the DSM five is, can you unpack that a little bit?
Miranda 00:26:32 It's I mean, how I explain attachment styles.
Miranda 00:26:36 It's a cute little way for us to put things into buckets so that we can have a short way of like, talking about things, but even that can get a bit messy. And so obsessive compulsive personality disorder is the type of person that is just extremely. They tend to be the person at work who shows up, who won't share the task because no one can do it like them. If they want it done right, they're going to do it themselves. It's really hard for them to to let go, you know? It's just a bit. Yeah.
Brenda 00:27:12 Yeah, totally. So I can see little parts of myself throughout my life that I would have fit into either one of those categories, and it absolutely manifested in burnout. I you know, I think the the word burnout is probably not extreme enough for what my wake up call eventually ended up to be, which was a medical crisis. But for the person who's like, just hearing this and they're like, okay, I'm curious now, I'm curious about like, I wonder if my attachment style has more to do with the way I'm feeling.
Brenda 00:27:47 What are some things that they could do right now that might create a little bit more ease and some relief for how they're feeling?
Miranda 00:27:57 They can start challenging those narratives. and I hate how simple it sounds, because it really is. It's work. Right? Well, for one, you have to be aware that narratives that even challenge them. And so, you know, I hate to be like, oh, go see a therapist because I'm a therapist, but it or see a coach like it really is helpful because we're so close to it, we don't realize that we're doing it. you know, if seeing a therapist is something you're not ready for or fills with outside of your reach, you know, maybe even asking trusted friends or people that have been around you, do you notice that, like I speak in this way or that like, it seems like I carry some narratives or or reading some really good books, you know, to to draw your awareness to these things. But you have to be aware of the patterns.
Miranda 00:28:50 It's, of course, as humans, it's helpful to know where they came from. It just completes the picture for us. and then being able to rebuild and create some new ones to live by. And I like to call it like mini experiments. And so if I, I think we kind of alluded to this earlier, if I could try to behave in a secure way, I may get a response that rewards me for doing that, and I'm more apt to try it again. and so if I'm talking myself through, okay, it doesn't have to be perfect as long as it gets done. And being able to do that and let go of something that maybe isn't so threatening, no, I'm not going to do it with something that has my livelihood wrapped into it, but maybe something that's not going to be of such great consequence. And start there trying a less threatening situation and build up your your chops. I'm all about self preservation. Like, I don't want you to go off the deep end because some of the things that feel like a threat, they feel like a threat for good reason.
Miranda 00:29:58 And so part of recovering from attachment trauma, attachment wounds or just, unhelpful narratives we've developed is learning how to trust ourselves. Again, trusting our judgment. That's right. Knowing am I doing it again Or is this my good sense that I have, you know, so.
Brenda 00:30:15 You're speaking to something really important. You can't see your nose on your own face unless you're looking at a mirror. And being mirrored back by a therapist or coach is incredibly impactful. Or a trusted friend. and I love what you say about, you know, trying it out in low stakes situations. I know in my journey, one of the places that I would practice would be if I went to the grocery store, I would practice asking for what I needed from grocery store staff, and I would take that into other, you know, department stores and, and shopping. And I would practice with the people there receiving help and practice asking for what I needed, because it felt like it was a little bit less threatening than trying it in my personal relationships, because I may not necessarily see the grocery person until next week.
Brenda 00:31:07 So it gave me some time and and I didn't feel a self-conscious. I felt self-conscious, but not as self-conscious as.
Miranda 00:31:15 But in a tolerable way that you could still do it and practice it and gain some insight. So mine shows up differently. So I feel comfortable asking for help from someone I'm close to, because I'm likely doing twice as much for them than what I'm asking for. So the challenge for me is to ask and accept without feeling I have to match.
Brenda 00:31:40 Oh yes.
Miranda 00:31:42 Yes, it's tough.
Brenda 00:31:44 It is tough. It is tough. Especially, you know, if we were raised in a family, that that was kind of expected that you give you give you give you give to the family. yeah. That was that was my experience. Growing up too, is like, there's certain things that you just give without questioning to the family. It's expected you will. We will get to receive. but you won't necessarily know when or how much, and it may or may not be in a reciprocal way at the time.
Miranda 00:32:17 And I don't know, I think even sometimes depending on, on what it was the asking for, it was taboo.
Brenda 00:32:23 Oh totally. How dare you ask for that. Yeah.
Miranda 00:32:29 Don't you see I'm doing you know. Yeah.
Brenda 00:32:32 Yeah. Exactly, exactly. So you mentioned your book. Tell us more about the book, where we can find it and all the things.
Miranda 00:32:40 Yes. So attachment style makeover. I can show you the cover. it can be found on Amazon, on, the paperback in Kindle. And so it really is like a whole therapy episode and put it into a workbook. So just imagine, like for a cost of a copay, you can get like, I mean, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for everybody. I think for, for some readers it is going to bring up things that you are going to feel compelled to go and talk through with a therapist. It's not something that, you know, you're going to sit on the beach and go through from start to finish.
Miranda 00:33:17 But, I will say that whatever it illuminates and whatever, like, I don't know, I don't want to I don't want to say pain, but I guess it is pain. It is painful, like you talked about looking at yourself in the mirror. That is a painful experience because you go thinking you're going to see one thing and then you recognize that, oh, there's more there. But I would much rather I would say I would much rather go through the pain of discovering these things. Then the pain is same. The same, because obviously the way things are aren't always going to be working for you. So it's one of those rich books that you you take in steps that have the power and potential to really transform your life and your relationships.
Brenda 00:34:09 So that's impactful. So I heard something important. I just want to say again, this isn't something you're supposed to do from start to finish in one sitting. No little sips here and there.
Miranda 00:34:21 I mean, if you do I'm then I'm going to question, are you like, how can you change that way? Because you know.
Miranda 00:34:29 So chapter three of our book is about grief, grieving the life that you wish you had, the life that you should have had, or the experience that you really deserved. And being able to come to terms with that and letting that go and creating what can be. In the subsequent chapters. Oh I love that. So that takes time. That that does take time.
Brenda 00:34:55 It does. And you know to your point it can be really painful to go on these journeys of self-discovery because a lot of times I don't know, I'm speaking for myself. But, you know, in 2007, when I left a marriage, I was filled with blame. It was all his fault. It was all their fault. It was all this. And there was it was not a conscious attempt to avoid responsibility for my choices, but it was absolutely an unconscious or a subconscious attempt to avoid taking responsibility for the choices that I'd made. And as little glimmers started to come through about, oh, I did have choice there.
Brenda 00:35:35 I didn't see it at the time, but I did have choice there. there was some painful recognition. And so just also want to say to the listener, you know, it, if you look at this and you experience a little bit of pain, there's love for that.
Miranda 00:35:53 Yes. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And I mean, looking back, I would imagine that let me know that the cycle you went through, through externalizing, you know, the blame for the dissolution of your marriage. That wasn't inaccurate, but perhaps there was something in you that was protecting yourself from seeing your involvement in it until you were ready to handle that, until you're ready to tackle that, because that would be a lot to handle all at once.
Brenda 00:36:24 Oh, yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't. So, I moved into a domestic violence shelter and I had therapy, twice a week. That was individual. And then I had group therapy once a week. And then after six months of that, I went into, like, more weekly therapy and then monthly therapy.
Brenda 00:36:43 And then my daughter was also in therapy at the time, and her therapist then would meet with me occasionally. And one of the things that she said I was absolutely infuriated by, which was, I wish you could see that the other parent isn't the monster that you think he is. I wish you could take him down to size. And I was like, what do you mean you wish I could see this? Like, how could you not see this? I was I was literally infuriated. And I was so angry with her that, I mean, how could you even dare she? Yes, exactly. And like, years later, I mean, more than ten years later, I was thinking, oh, I think I kind of understand what she meant. Meaning I did have a choice to stand in my own power, and I sort of wanted someone else to do it for me for a lot of years. But the truth is, no one's coming to rescue us. We have to rescue ourselves.
Miranda 00:37:52 Yeah, that's a beautiful realization. painful journey to it. But, yeah. Top notch. it's not much. Yeah.
Brenda 00:38:01 Yeah. Miranda, this has been amazing. Where can people connect with you? Where can they find you?
Miranda 00:38:07 Yes, they can find me on social media platforms at therapist Miranda Campbell. my website is the same therapist Miranda campbell.com. I provide one on one therapy based on my book, as well as group therapy based on the book. So if you don't want to go it alone, there's that as well.
Brenda 00:38:26 That's amazing. Amazing. And I'll put all the links in the show notes along with the link to the book. And is there anything else that comes up for you that you want to share with our listeners before we sign off?
Miranda 00:38:39 I will just say, you know, do the hard thing. Do the hard thing.
Brenda 00:38:46 Yeah.
Miranda 00:38:48 Whatever that means for you. Yeah. Do you know saying yes. Does it mean that you immediately have to jump in? But you can increase your readiness To to do that our thing.
Miranda 00:38:59 I think bringing it full circle, saying yes, to say.
Brenda 00:39:02 Yeah, I love that. I was just teaching inside my my container your yes filled life about the cycles of change. And I was teaching how in the in the change model that I use, there are three steps of that chain cycle that are actually not action based at all. It's like preparing for the change. Precognition like where I something's off a little bit, but I don't know what. I'm just aware that something maybe should change. And then the actual preparation and all of those steps happen before there's any in action. So I'm just jumping on the bandwagon of saying, yeah, just even saying, okay, I might be able to dip my toe in and just like, play with the idea that I'm ready for something different is a step for sure. Yeah. Thank you. Miranda. This has been amazing.
Miranda 00:39:55 Thank you.
